Posted on 03/09/2008 by BonusOnus
Viewed: 472 times
We've had some Indian coworkers who transferred to our US office on L1 or H1B visas. Mind you, these are Indians straight out of India. Most Indian coworkers were either former college students who were hired here, or were immigrants who've been here for a while and have adapted to the US culture.
But the ones straight out of India have some annoying habits.
1) Compartmentalize work and private life. Work is work; just because I'm your coworker doesn't mean we're best friends. We're not - I have friends outside of work and I'm closer to them than most friends at work. I also keep my private life separate from work. So stop getting insulted if I am vague about what I did during the weekend or don't tell you more about the woman I am dating.
2) The resources at work are intended to be used for work-related purposes. Sure, there's some abuse by Americans but they know there's a limit. So stop using the corporate printer to print out private material. Not only is it abusing company resources but do you really want to take the chance that some coworker gets to the printer before you do and sees personal information about you?
Sending/receiving personal email to your work email is just asking for trouble. So is downloading all those Indian MP3 songs on the corporate PC.
And I know calling India long distance is expensive but most companies do not allow you to call your family in India from your work phone line because you don't want to pay for the telephone bill. Some will even fire you for that.
3) Don't ask me what my salary is or if I got a performance bonus. We don't do that in the US. Yes, you told me that back in the India office, everyone shares their salaries and such but we don't do that here. Don't get offended if I don't tell you and don't make the argument that I should reveal it because you're my friend. See #1 above.
4) Labor costs more in the US. Therefore, US companies expect more from their employees here than in India. You can't loaf and IM with friends back in India for hours at a time. I surf the web here and there at work but I limit it, mainly because I always have something to do.
If you notice, most Americans, even the Indian ones who've been here a while, are at their desk most of the time. They don't go around and socialize with everyone in the group for 2 hours every day. Yes, I saw that in the Indian office and I know the Indian culture emphasizes socializing in the office much more than in the US. But when in Rome, do as the Romans do.
5) Just because Americans are trusting doesn't mean that they are gullible. Stop expecting that you will be a manager in 2 years. You have not shown yourself to be all that good. You should focus more on doing your job well rather than career ladder climbing. You actually need to show achievement, not just talk a good game and be sycophantic to the managers. You talked a good game but you've been here a year and you still don't have a very good grasp of our SW and our technologies. I've asked you to read the docs about our product and have a better grasp of our products. That's something you have to do on your own time. Don't ask me to teach it to you because I really don't have time. I'm not your private tutor. And I won't do your homework for you. Stop trying to take advantage of me and stop complaining that you expected better treatment from me because we are friends.
Now developers in other groups are complaining about you because of your lack of technical knowledge. Isn't it ironic that the biggest complainers about you are your fellow Indians? Maybe they aren't as trusting as Americans because they are used to the Indian tendency to "shuck and jive" rather than be honest about their accomplishments.
And stop complaining about how Americans are so unfriendly and unhelpful. Maybe that's because they see you as shifty and slick and having an ulterior motive. Americans are very helpful and friendly. But they don't like being taken advantage of. You need to stop acting like anyone not from your Indian ethnicity and caste is someone to take advantage of for your self-interest.
6) Don't tell others at work that you got the company to sponsor you for a green card. Many Americans (including myself) resent that especially since there are Americans who could do your job. What's crazy is that you're a mediocre engineer and I know we could hire someone just as good as you who is an American (and I don't care what ethnicity they are, as long as they are a citizen or a legal resident). Don't take this as some validation that you're some indispensible worker from India because you're not.
You shouldn't have gotten a green card. Some unemployed American programmer should have been hired instead.
POST A COMMENTlabtech(03/09/2008)
And while we're on the subject, my Bachelor's degree took 4 years to complete; not the 3 years for you. I had to pay for it myself, the government didn't pick up the bill for me. And if I want to finish my Master's degree, it's two years, FULL time, NOT one, like you. So stop flouting your wonderful "education": it ISN'T up to American standards.
I agree. The only Indian school worth its salt is IIT (Indian Institute of Technology). It's the Indian version of MIT and usually the students from there are very good.
At the same time, if the Indian colleges are so good, why aren't more foreigners going to Indian colleges in the same number that Indians (or other foreigners) are enrolling in American colleges?
BonusOnus(03/09/2008)
I would like to clarify that the complaints are about a composite of various Indian coworkers, not one individual.
And second, not all Indian coworkers are like this. I have 2 Indian coworkers I am close to. But they immigrated here and have been here at least 10+ years. Ironically, they are anti-Indian - one tells me that Indian coworkers give him more trouble than any other ethnicity. I found that ironic.
labtech(03/10/2008)
Easy answer, BonusOnus;
We, as foreigners, are not allowed to attend Indian universities. Just try to get in one. If you can manage it, understand you will be paying heavily for the privilege. Oh, and of interest: Russian Master's degrees only take 4.5 years to get (the gov't pays for it including housing, etc) - that includes the Bachelor's degree too. So if I was a Russian, I'd have a PhD by now and no financial aid loans, isn't that wonderful ? Then I could come to America, and take a job with my "degree" that is nowhere NEAR the standards of an American University degree. Must be nice.
twiz(03/10/2008)
Historically the US has lagged behind other countries in regards to the quality of education at our schools and colleges.
It does not surprise me that an advanced degree can be achieved in less time in places like Russia. They have long been recognized for producing top engineers and programmers, which leads me to believe they have quality schools.
From my experience with outsourcing, I have not been too impressed with the folks I've encountered. That said, I've talked with some old co-workers who have had good experiences, and found some of the offshore contractors to be very capable. The main problem they found is that the good ones leave and move on to higher paying gigs every few months. The turn-over rate is so high that they keep having to re-train someone constantly for the position that use to be held by a capable employee for 15 years before they laid them off.
It is nice to see the companies getting exactly what they asked for... cheap labor...;-)
Robi9n(03/10/2008)
It also pisses them off when Americans will not recognize their social status in their native caste system. I worked with a person who told me her family was royalty in India and that I should respect for it. I told her to kiss my fat white a$$ and that to me respect was earned not a birth right in America.
Actually, you can attend an Indian university...provided you pay the fees based on your non-citizenship. IIT reserves X amount of seats (I think like 20 seats a year) for foreign exchange students.
The fees, based in rupees, might not be as high as say MIT. But the Indian universities don't gladly accept students from all over the world, like US universities do.
BonusOnus(03/11/2008)
Another story(and this really happened to me).
Indian coworker from my Indian office comes to America. Wowwed by America - our cities are clean. The drivers actually obey the traffic lanes (you ever drive in India? Not for the faint-hearted).
I take him around a little, as a courtesy. Some stores, a few tourist places, but not much. I have my own life outside of work.
Then he asks me if I could take him to a strip joint. HUH?!?!? Dude, that's not something you bring up with your "co-workers". He's married. But Indian men (and I guess, by extension, women) are sexually repressed in a very traditional society. He's only seen one woman naked in his life and that was his wife. Me? I subscribe to Playboy (and yes, I do read the articles). Naked women, it's not a big thing for me. He wants to see more naked women. Pornography is outlawed in India.
I try to avoid this by telling him that I really don't like going to strip bars because I'm paying a lot to go look at scantily clad women that I won't even get to touch (which is true BTW). That's a waste of money IMO. He tells me that he'll pay for my cover and buy me drinks.
I respectfully tell him that that's not professional and I just cannot do that. Sorry.
twiz(03/11/2008)
Whoa! I would ran for the hills after that invitation!
I do recall a few of my co-consultants back in the day that were from India... They would often want to go out after work and hang-out. I always attributed it to the fact that they were here in the US with no family/friends and were just trying to make friends...
But no one ever wanted to go to a strip club... yeah no...
India has a different culture about work than the US. We Americans compartmentalize work and private life. I don't like talking too much about my private life at work and I get annoyed at those who keeping talking about their private lives at work non-stop. Work is work and my private life is my private life. I'm only at work because I get paid to do it.
In India, work and private life seem to be the same. If you are a coworker with someone in India, they see you as a friend. People who keep to themselves at work are frowned upon.
I was in India and it was amazing that everybody in the office (I mean everybody, including the receptionist) all went to the break room at the same time for lunch and all ate together.
Here in the US, we don't do that. Some people bring their own lunch, some people go out to eat somewhere. Some poeple eat at their cube, others eat in the breakroom. I usually go to lunch with my friends at work but I usually do not eat lunch with other coworkers.
The other thing is, the US has a very diverse workforce. My group of 12 people has Indians, Russians, white Americans, Chinese, Irish, etc. I guess that's why we don't really socialize during lunch. In India, it's all desi all the time.
CK(03/15/2008)
I am sorry but I really can't comment on this subject considering a good friend of mine is Indian. While my friend was born and raised in India, she is an American citizen and not here on a H1B visa.
My Indian friend has been used and abused by some of my fellow co-workers in my department that she was able to transfer to a different department.
She is very smart, intelegent, and one of the friendliest people I know. She was hired as a contractor and was abused by some of my co-workers and one of my former supervisors. She would come to me and cry about the abuse.
I took her under my wing and encouraged her. Finally there was a job opening within the organization as a programmer to which I encouraged her to apply. She got the job and moved up from there. Among her customers and new co-workers she is deeply loved and respected.
To this very day I encourge her to press on. I know that there are great things in store for her! There is more to this story than I can tell right now ... the story continues and is even MORE inspirational!
My vent isn't a slam against all Indians. I have a close friend from work who is Indian. He and I were coworkers from my 1st job, 10 years ago. I still keep in touch with him. I also have two other coworkers, all Indian, who I am friends with.
But there's a cultural difference I see between those Indians who've either immigrated here or came here to study and then found a job - and those who are just straight out of India on an H1B or L1B.
I've also been to India and interacted with my Indian office many times. There's a cultural trait of a "cheater" mentality among Indians, that it's OK to fudge, lie, or cheat to get ahead. This does mean all Indians do it. Some are very honest and conscientious. And this is not to say that this cheater mentality doesn't exist in other races. It applies to some white Americans I've worked with. But it's not as rampant as it is among Indians. This is not an isolated incident. My Indian friends have warned me about interacting with Indians, especially the newbies. And talking to my colleagues in my industry, they complain about the same things I do. This is a diverse sample size of about 15-25 colleagues BTW.
Here's a story. When I was in India, I was given a driver who drove me to/from my residence to my office. He worked for an outside company and my company paid for his service. He asked me to sign the hourly log book every day. I kinda thought it was weird that his log book only had the start time but never the end time.
A month later, my Indian office started screaming at me that I had signed the log book without checking it and that the driver "made up" hours, claiming to have been with me for 12-15 hours a day. He inflated his hours.
comments (12)
digg | 
del.icio.us | 
e-mail it
POST A COMMENT
